A Methodist's Introduction
cloyd printable version print page     Bookmark and Share
Fri May 21, 2010 at 02:48:41 PM EST

5/21/10

Finding Talk to Action feels like coming home. All I read here reminds me of where I have struggled, where I have denied, and thus where there may be a bit more struggling to do. I understand that I am not just to post “opinions,” but be able to back them up. Right now, I am more interested in recounting where I am and how I got here; arguments with others are not my goal, though some may read what I write and want to challenge me; maybe some will want to help.


I am 60 years old, an ordained minister in the United Methodist Church. I speak for myself on these pages, not for my church. I cannot emphasize that too much. Opinions and beliefs are mine, not my church's.

I came from an almost unchurched family, in a highly fundamentalist community. As I grew up, my views were quite secular, and have continued to be, even as I joined the church, and entered ministry. For instance, ever since I heard of evolution, it just made sense. I can remember as a very small child noting how several other animals had two eyes, two nostrils, two ears, even two fore limbs and two hind limbs . . . just like me! The fact that some had tails and some didn't did not escape my notice. However, noting the resemblance between me, my dog, and the birds that landed in the yard, when I first heard of evolution I readily accepted it as the truth. I still do. I appreciate my church's position that they stated in 2008, though I must admit, most people in the pews know nothing about that position and many would disagree with it. However, I suspect that many just do not care either way, and that mystifies me. It has mystified me since the day I entered ministry. It was a major concern in my own journey, and they simply ignore it!

Though my family was basically unchurched as I grew up, I still went to Bible school and visited churches with my friends. There I learned the Biblical creation story, with Adam and Eve, and I quickly sensed the problem. Where did dinosaurs and cave men fit into the Genesis story? Even a seven year old could understand that they didn't. By high school I was a silent atheist. I stayed that way until college when I learned that religion had more to offer than stories of origins and offer ways to mitigate the fear of death; religion offered meaning when one was faced with meaninglessness. None the less, I did not join a church, and attitudes toward religion swayed back and forth. God I doubted, but was interested in. Science offered knowledge, and I never doubted that science offered a way to know truth. Religion I questioned. There were times that I ventured toward the Christian faith, and times I moved away. Buddhism and Taoism and the writings of Alan Watts always attracted me. The eastern way did not seem so much in opposition to science as Christianity. Note that Buddhism and Taoism do not say there is no god; there may be or there may not be. However, such gods are beside the point. Buddhism (especially Zen) and Taoism posit the possibility of meaning without theism, and are in that sense atheistic religions.

It was not until after the age of 40, after a divorce that I entered the church. I had heard of the concept of pluralism from a family member who is a United Methodist minister. He also spoke of theology that was not fundamentalist theology, and it interested me. After the divorce, I needed a little meaning. I became active in the church, and ultimately entered ministry. It took a little while, but as I went down the road, I learned that though the concept of pluralism is not dead in the United Methodist Church, it is under attack and has just about been pushed to the sidelines. Despite that fact, I still find that it is necessary to my own theology.

The United Methodist Church offers an alternative, somewhat less demanding path for those who enter ministry after age 40. Although I could have taken that path to ministry that did not require seminary, I choose the seminary route. During that time, I realized many things about the United Methodist Church. One was that though the theology of the United Methodist Church was more open than most of the churches I had grown up around, the people in the pew seemed to be a mix: a few who were open (always enough to know that they are there), and many who were closed. I also learned of the forces that want to move the church to the right, such as the Confessing Movement, with their ties to the Institute for Religion and Democracy. I had watched the growth of the Religious Right from the 70's to the 90's and was repulsed by it. During the time I was in seminary, I sensed that these organizations reason for being was not about faith and theology but about power. I always sensed that the Confessing Movement (and Institute for Religion and Democracy and Good News and UM Action) all wanted to take the United Methodist Church the same route as the Southern Baptist Church had gone. I was not and am not interested in being part of such a church. I must add that I resent the hijacking of the noble name of the Confessing Movement, which originally referred to the heroic efforts of the German Protestant church to resist the influence of Nazism as it took over the church.

A few years ago, I first heard of Christian Reconstructionism. It scared the daylights out of me. Yet, I see it all around. I think because of the fundamentalist environment I grew up in, I can see all the red flags, but at the same time, when I see such flags, it is an intuitive thing and I can't always back up my feelings with knowledge. I can sense it a mile away, but I cannot always explain the danger to others.

There are still are theological struggles. For instance, what is the nature of the kingdom of God? Is it in some way present in the here and how? Or is it in the unknown future? Is is to be set in place by God's people, or will God establish it one his terms and in his time? I would like to somehow think of the kingdom being a time when there will be perfect peace and perfect justice. I also want to think that as God's people are to somehow be responsible for achieving it and maintaining it. But then, I still utterly oppose anything that resembles a theocracy. I live in a secular world, and I like it that way. Theocracy would be tyranny. (opinion? Likely yes, but strongly held!) My hope is that it may be like Jesus said as he told about who would be present in the kingdom . . . he said many would be surprised at who is there. I guess we may be a bit surprised about the exact nature of the kingdom; God's kingdom may yet be pluralistic.

With all that said, I am convinced that living things, human beings, and faith are able to flourish best in a secular environment.

I am happy to find Talk to Action. Perhaps there are things that I can learn . . . to be able to explain those red flags, or maybe find a thing or two to flesh out that pluralistic understanding of the kingdom. But more than that, I really want to understand the threat and learn to effectively oppose those who would put an end to our free secular society. I am interested in joining with others who also see the danger.




Display:
I wish you the best of luck in finding your fellow progressive Christians and in doing whatever you can to help organize them.  It seems to me that progressive Christians need to form an effective counterweight to groups like the IRD.

Sorry I can't help, since I'm not Christian myself.  But there are some progressive Christians here on Talk To Action, and there are some online resources specifically for progressive Christians, such as CrossLeft.


by Diane Vera on Sat May 22, 2010 at 02:31:58 PM EST


I am sure that with your background in both fundamentalism and mainline protestantism, and your appreciation for both science and religious pluralism, you are very right that this is a good place to hang out.  This site's focus is the religious right, and as you may have read, we bring religious and non-religious, Christians and non-Christians into the conversation. All are welcome. We seek to model the religious pluralism we say that we value by seeking the mutual respect that is a necessary prerequisite for our constitutional democracy to work.  

As you know from your experience with IRD and the renewal groups, there are interests out to pit people against one another to accomplish their outside, often antidemocratic political objectives.  We have taken on IRD many times here, and no doubt will have occasion to do so again.

by Frederick Clarkson on Wed May 26, 2010 at 03:23:32 AM EST



WWW Talk To Action


Cognitive Dissonance & Dominionism Denial
There is new research on why people are averse to hearing or learning about the views of ideological opponents. Based on evaluation of five......
By Frederick Clarkson (375 comments)
Will the Air Force Do Anything To Rein In Its Dynamic Duo of Gay-Bashing, Misogynistic Bloggers?
"I always get nervous when I see female pastors/chaplains. Here is why everyone should as well: "First, women are not called to be pastors,......
By Chris Rodda (203 comments)
The Legacy of Big Oil
The media is ablaze with the upcoming publication of David Grann's book, Killers of the Flower Moon. The shocking non fiction account of the......
By wilkyjr (111 comments)
Gimme That Old Time Dominionism Denial
Over the years, I have written a great deal here and in other venues about the explicitly theocratic movement called dominionism -- which has......
By Frederick Clarkson (101 comments)
History Advisor to Members of Congress Completely Twists Jefferson's Words to Support Muslim Ban
Pseudo-historian David Barton, best known for his misquoting of our country's founders to promote the notion that America was founded as a Christian nation,......
By Chris Rodda (113 comments)
"Christian Fighter Pilot" Calls First Lesbian Air Force Academy Commandant a Liar
In a new post on his "Christian Fighter Pilot" blog titled "BGen Kristin Goodwin and the USAFA Honor Code," Air Force Lieutenant Colonel Jonathan......
By Chris Rodda (144 comments)
Catholic Right Leader Unapologetic about Call for 'Death to Liberal Professors' -- UPDATED
Today, Donald Trump appointed C-FAM Executive Vice President Lisa Correnti to the US Delegation To UN Commission On Status Of Women. (C-FAM is a......
By Frederick Clarkson (126 comments)
Controlling Information
     Yesterday I listened to Russ Limbaugh.  Rush advised listeners it would be best that they not listen to CNN,MSNBC, ABC, CBS and......
By wilkyjr (118 comments)
Is Bannon Fifth-Columning the Pope?
In December 2016 I wrote about how White House chief strategist Steve Bannon, who likes to flash his Catholic credentials when it comes to......
By Frank Cocozzelli (251 comments)
Ross Douthat's Hackery on the Seemingly Incongruous Alliance of Bannon & Burke
Conservative Catholic writer Ross Douthat has dissembled again. This time, in a February 15, 2017 New York Times op-ed titled The Trump Era's Catholic......
By Frank Cocozzelli (65 comments)
`So-Called Patriots' Attack The Rule Of Law
Every so often, right-wing commentator Pat Buchanan lurches out of the far-right fever swamp where he has resided for the past 50 years to......
By Rob Boston (161 comments)
Bad Faith from Focus on the Family
Here is one from the archives, Feb 12, 2011, that serves as a reminder of how deeply disingenuous people can be. Appeals to seek......
By Frederick Clarkson (177 comments)
The Legacy of George Wallace
"One need not accept any of those views to agree that they had appealed to real concerns of real people, not to mindless, unreasoning......
By wilkyjr (70 comments)
Betsy DeVos's Mudsill View of Public Education
My Talk to Action colleague Rachel Tabachnick has been doing yeoman's work in explaining Betsy DeVos's long-term strategy for decimating universal public education. If......
By Frank Cocozzelli (80 comments)
Prince and DeVos Families at Intersection of Radical Free Market Privatizers and Religious Right
This post from 2011 surfaces important information about President-Elect Trump's nominee for Secretary of Education, Betsy DeVos. -- FC Erik Prince, Brother of Betsy......
By Rachel Tabachnick (218 comments)

Respect for Others? or Political Correctness?
The term "political correctness" as used by Conservatives and Republicans has often puzzled me: what exactly do they mean by it? After reading Chip Berlin's piece here-- http://www.talk2action.org/story/2016/7/21/04356/9417 I thought about what he explained......
MTOLincoln (253 comments)
Fear
What I'm feeling now is fear.  I swear that it seems my nightmares are coming true with this new "president".  I'm also frustrated because so many people are not connecting all the dots! I've......
ArchaeoBob (107 comments)
"America - love it or LEAVE!"
I've been hearing that and similar sentiments fairly frequently in the last few days - far FAR more often than ever before.  Hearing about "consequences for burning the flag (actions) from Trump is chilling!......
ArchaeoBob (214 comments)
"Faked!" Meme
Keep your eyes and ears open for a possible move to try to discredit the people openly opposing Trump and the bigots, especially people who have experienced terrorism from the "Right"  (Christian Terrorism is......
ArchaeoBob (165 comments)
More aggressive proselytizing
My wife told me today of an experience she had this last week, where she was proselytized by a McDonald's employee while in the store. ......
ArchaeoBob (163 comments)
See if you recognize names on this list
This comes from the local newspaper, which was conservative before and took a hard right turn after it was sold. Hint: Sarah Palin's name is on it!  (It's also connected to Trump.) ......
ArchaeoBob (169 comments)
Unions: A Labor Day Discussion
This is a revision of an article which I posted on my personal board and also on Dailykos. I had an interesting discussion on a discussion board concerning Unions. I tried to piece it......
Xulon (180 comments)
Extremely obnoxious protesters at WitchsFest NYC: connected to NAR?
In July of this year, some extremely loud, obnoxious Christian-identified protesters showed up at WitchsFest, an annual Pagan street fair here in NYC.  Here's an account of the protest by Pagan writer Heather Greene......
Diane Vera (130 comments)
Capitalism and the Attack on the Imago Dei
I joined this site today, having been linked here by Crooksandliars' Blog Roundup. I thought I'd put up something I put up previously on my Wordpress blog and also at the DailyKos. As will......
Xulon (331 comments)
History of attitudes towards poverty and the churches.
Jesus is said to have stated that "The Poor will always be with you" and some Christians have used that to refuse to try to help the poor, because "they will always be with......
ArchaeoBob (149 comments)
Alternate economy medical treatment
Dogemperor wrote several times about the alternate economy structure that dominionists have built.  Well, it's actually made the news.  Pretty good article, although it doesn't get into how bad people could be (have been)......
ArchaeoBob (90 comments)
Evidence violence is more common than believed
Think I've been making things up about experiencing Christian Terrorism or exaggerating, or that it was an isolated incident?  I suggest you read this article (linked below in body), which is about our great......
ArchaeoBob (214 comments)

More Diaries...




All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective companies. Comments, posts, stories, and all other content are owned by the authors. Everything else © 2005 Talk to Action, LLC.