Atheists banned over disruption
ArchaeoBob printable version print page     Bookmark and Share
Wed Feb 23, 2011 at 11:07:13 AM EST
Today there is a disturbing news item in the paper regarding the fight for separation of church and state.
http://www.theledger.com/article/20110222/NEWS/110229946/1410?Tit

le=Atheist-Arrested-at-Polk-School-Board-Meeting

The leader of Atheists of Florida (John Kieffer) was arrested for disrupting the Polk County School Board meeting yesterday.  He shouted out "Prayer has no place in government! Prayer has no place in government!" between the "invocation" and the beginning of the meeting.  He'd just been rebuked for not being silent (spoke to the Atheists of Florida legal coordinator) during the prayer (which was scheduled before the official start of the School Board meeting), and I'm sure he responded in frustration and anger over being rebuked.

I'm pretty upset at this.  He shouldn't have shouted, and what he did gave the "Good Christians" in the county something they can use to drum up more support for their forcing their "Christianity" on the rest of us.  It's already being used to call for more political support for the school board - and they're calling for returning the prayers as an "official" part of the school board meeting.  Now Kieffer and the legal coordinator (and possibly they will extend this to the group) are banned from the meetings.  VERY COUNTERPRODUCTIVE!!!  I can understand the frustration he must have been feeling, but there are times and places to protest and times and places to keep one's mouth shut, and this was one of the latter.  I could have told him that they were looking for any reason to (mis)use the law against him, and now it's going to be harder to monitor the school board for violations of the law.

I'm equally, if not more upset at what is going on in this county.  The efforts to force "Christian" prayers on people are increasing all over the place - I've even gotten quite a few proselytizing attempts by cashiers at major stores and some friends have reported having the same experience.  The practice of overt "Christian" (Pentecostal/Dominionist/Fundamentalist) prayers as part of government meetings has been going on here for years, along with their persecution of non-"Christians" (including persecuting mainstream Christians like Roman Catholics).  Now that they're being called on it, they are becoming more militant and insistent.  My friends (atheist and not) have mentioned receiving persecution because of belonging to religious minorities, including being denied service when people found out.  I fear physical violence will soon come, because of what my wife and I have been through.  We have already had several things happen to us: burned shop, racist graffiti, pets vanishing/dying mysteriously, threats to family members, preached against in megachurches, and all connected to my political activities and words.  I wouldn't put it past the local dominionists to do more because the very things we've experienced and worse have happened to others around the country (possibly establishing a pattern).  Kieffer may end up making things far worse for us personally by his mistake, as we have to live here (no way to move).  He can go home (I think he's from northern Florida), but the repercussions of his actions will remain and I think I'm justified in fearing those repercussions.

In this fight for our freedom, we need to always consider what our words and actions will do.  There are times and places for overt protest, and there are times where a soft word at the right time and place is far more effective.   The "Good Christians" already consider this a form of violence against them, although it was really non-violent and a legitimate complaint.  In dealing with those types and in this sort of situation, you have to have every i dotted and every t crossed, and have to make sure everything is just right, otherwise you can make things worse.  I imagine that Kieffers only whispered to his legal coordinator, and that was just what the school board was looking for.  It escalated.

Now he has a fine, is banned from the meetings, and there may be unpleasant repercussions for local people, including those who aren't from his group, yet support separation of church and state.




Display:
...kind of rude, I suppose.  But, I agree with him.  I'm not offended by "In God We Trust," Christmas Trees on capitol lawns, etc..  But it does rub me the wrong way when people pray at a council meeting for government.  I typically doubt the people who do so actually believe any of it, as capitalist power-grubbing politicians rarely have anything to do with Jesus, and so I find it silly and offensive.

I don't think he was wrong in doing it, I'm not sure the board was wrong in kicking him out for doing so.  I will not have my children indoctrinated with religion.

by OldChaosoftheSun on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 12:09:33 AM EST

many of the Council are supposed to be "True Believers".  They think it's imperative that they "Honor Jesus" by praying as part of everything - and it has to be out in the open and overt.

I'm more concerned about the repercussions, although what he said was dead right.  There are a lot of really nasty and dirty things going on in county government, and the way they do things is an attempt to just barely skirt the letter of the law, while shattering the spirit.  Several things about this struck me: (1) They moved the prayers (led by a preacher) to just before the meeting started right after the Atheists of Florida started attending so they couldn't be accused of the prayers being part of an official function, (2) The meeting wasn't formally started, but they had the gall to rebuke Kieffer for talking, and (3) when it was pointed out that the meeting hadn't been called to order yet, they immediately used the gavel.  Not only that, but they expelled him for causing a disruption - when the meeting hadn't been called to order yet.  Finally, it appears he was arrested for resisting arrest.

I'd like to see the formal charges.  I bet they're all bogus - and this county is bad about bogus charges (2/3 of the "encounters" I've had over the last 33 years were bogus and for things like broken taillights that weren't).

by ArchaeoBob on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 10:23:56 AM EST
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..."true believers"...

Most people don't ever seem to grasp the concept of creating a vast facade among the highest authorities of having morality - they've none faith nor morals.  They're just preparing an inquisition.

by OldChaosoftheSun on Fri Feb 25, 2011 at 09:47:57 AM EST
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...against you at church?  What did you do?  I've received some serious intimidation techniques in my small town from the local Christian cults, seen them kill people, and received death threats, but, I don't know that my name has actually been mentioned in sermons.

Good luck, you'll have trouble finding more than just me to believe you on that stuff - most people don't think Christian persecution of non-Christians happens much in this country, when, in reality, it's pretty vicious and violent.

by OldChaosoftheSun on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 12:12:28 AM EST

covering topics such as stating one can be Christian and accept evolution, and defending GLBT people.  I've also stood up for racial minorities several times and against mistreatment of poor people, and they really don't like that.  I've also pointed out the errors in their ideas about economy.

I'm told that other liberals in this county sometimes get preached against too... if they argue against any dominionist goal.  One retired UU minister in this area is especially hated.

Preaching against people is a common activity in Pentecostal/Dominionist/Fundamentalist churches.  It's evil and wrong, but they do it - it's meant to coerce people into obedience and to get people to treat the "sinner" badly so that they feel pressure to "repent".

by ArchaeoBob on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 10:33:20 AM EST
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Have you documented the violence you observed?  Have you reached out to your local ACLU chapter, or perhaps your local Unitarian pastor, for advice?  Thus stuff needs to be documented and exposed.  If you have not done so already, please do whatever you can to find someone near your locale who can help you.


by Diane Vera on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 06:13:00 AM EST
I'm trying to document the things I've been put through, although it has been difficult.  We need to tell about the things we've experienced at the hands of the P/D/Fs, and if possible document them.  I have documentation of the fire (can't PROVE it was deliberately set), the graffiti, and my wife has witnessed several of the things that have happened and can testify to them.

I'm hoping to get a statement from a friend who observed my being internet stalked, documenting specifically that I WAS stalked.  I'm also trying to look into some of the things that have happened in the past, and hope I still have some of the papers laying around.  

I find it irritating that we have to do this, but needing documentation is a fact of life in this country.  Too many people don't have a problem with telling lies.

The more we share what we've experienced (and if lucky document those things as well), the more people will listen to us.  A pattern is established and with enough accounts, even anecdotal evidence can become significant.


by ArchaeoBob on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 10:58:40 AM EST
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...unfortunately the tactics employed were so fast, underhanded, and reminiscent of black ops that It's pretty hard to document what occurred.  I wrote the FBI many times regarding threats to my person regarding an international pedophile ring I was raised in operated by YWAM and the Assemblies of God which also was using women from an Assemblies of God operated Local Porn Site to target people in my area.  I was threatened with death, constantly harassed, intimidated by old church leaders and other church members.  It's pretty difficult to prove any of it, so I've given up trying, and the methods of intimidation against me were so extreme and traumatizing that I've just given up on life I guess.

"The Call DC 2000 Board of Directors" contains information about the ringleader of the child trafficking who was arrested briefly then released.

Been over 2 1/2 years since I wrote the FBI with information I had regarding it, they just tortured me.

by OldChaosoftheSun on Fri Feb 25, 2011 at 09:54:44 AM EST
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like you also encountered a strong dose of "But it's a CHURCH, it can't be THAT BAD!!!"

(Retch.  Puke.)

I appreciated Bruce's suggestion of reminding people of Jonestown and Jones when they come out with that sort of cr*p.

by ArchaeoBob on Fri Feb 25, 2011 at 10:37:16 AM EST
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Yeah, Jonestown came out of my region in Northern California.  

It's the same stuff, serial killing cults, this time with pedophile rings and pornography rings and they don't kill their own people - they kill their enemies.

Brutal mind-control cult that I was raised in, going to find a way to off myself soon I think.  I can't deal with having seen 25 people murdered and not being able to prove it.

by OldChaosoftheSun on Fri Feb